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Article: A Misnomer About GT Football Talent

This is a discussion on Article: A Misnomer About GT Football Talent within the Georgia Tech Football forums, part of the Georgia Tech Sports Message Boards category; One of the things I keep seeing in several threads is "It's not like we don't have the talent, we ...

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    A Misnomer About Talent

    One of the things I keep seeing in several threads is "It's not like we don't have the talent, we were close or had the chance to beat the last three teams."

    That premise is false. Case in point: VT almost lost to East Carolina (15-10) and Marshall (29-21 in 2 OTs) the previous weeks before us. Is anyone going to say those teams are as talented as VT? Some of you might hate hearing this because so many are on the "Fire CPJ!" train, but it's actually the coaching, especially on Defense, that's keeping us in games. Yes, we have talent to be competitive with Miami, VT, and BYU...but better talent takes you from being competitive to winning. Remember throwing smoke routes to BeyBey and him taking it 60+ yards for a TD to pull us ahead against FSU? Remember Nesbitt handing it off to Dwyer against UGA on a simple dive, Dwyer cutting back that made a former 4 star LB lose his jock in the middle of the field, then taking it to the house on our way beating UGA? Remember Derrick Morgan being such a nightmare that he basically forced Clemson to play to one side of the field...the side Derrick Morgan wasn't on? Remember 5'9 Reggie Ball just throwing the ball up in the endzone knowing that Calvin Johnson was going to make "The Catch" against Clemson to win it?

    Talent helps with little things like being a step quicker to the edge to seal the LB or safety from the ball carrier. Talent helps when a DE gives an OT an outside move but goes inside and the OT is quick enought to recover to atleast push him off track to the QB so the the QB has more time. Talent helps when the WR is even with the DB, but the WR has an extra gear to pull away from the DB to take it to the house (see Stephen Hill and Demaryius Thomas).

    It's not the big things that talent gives you, it's the little things like what I pointed out above. We don't have much of that right now, and that's why teams are pulling away from us. Yes, we were in the game against VT, but did anyone honestly think we ever had control of the game?


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    Quote Originally Posted by AllGT View Post
    One of the things I keep seeing in several threads is "It's not like we don't have the talent, we were close or had the chance to beat the last three teams."

    That premise is false. Case in point: VT almost lost to East Carolina (15-10) and Marshall (29-21 in 2 OTs) the previous weeks before us. Is anyone going to say those teams are as talented as VT? Some of you might hate hearing this because so many are on the "Fire CPJ!" train, but it's actually the coaching, especially on Defense, that's keeping us in games. Yes, we have talent to be competitive with Miami, VT, and BYU...but better talent takes you from being competitive to winning. Remember throwing smoke routes to BeyBey and him taking it 60+ yards for a TD to pull us ahead against FSU? Remember Nesbitt handing it off to Dwyer against UGA on a simple dive, Dwyer cutting back that made a former 4 star LB lose his jock in the middle of the field, then taking it to the house on our way beating UGA? Remember Derrick Morgan being such a nightmare that he basically forced Clemson to play to one side of the field...the side Derrick Morgan wasn't on? Remember 5'9 Reggie Ball just throwing the ball up in the endzone knowing that Calvin Johnson was going to make "The Catch" against Clemson to win it?

    Talent helps with little things like being a step quicker to the edge to seal the LB or safety from the ball carrier. Talent helps when a DE gives an OT an outside move but goes inside and the OT is quick enought to recover to atleast push him off track to the QB so the the QB has more time. Talent helps when the WR is even with the DB, but the WR has an extra gear to pull away from the DB to take it to the house (see Stephen Hill and Demaryius Thomas).

    It's not the big things that talent gives you, it's the little things like what I pointed out above. We don't have much of that right now, and that's why teams are pulling away from us. Yes, we were in the game against VT, but did anyone honestly think we ever had control of the game?
    Great post! If I would have seen this, I would have never posted my thread. Yours is better!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 91Wreck View Post
    Great post! If I would have seen this, I would have never posted my thread. Yours is better!
    There's considerable truth to what you say. But the problem is that the talent on the offensive line is leaps and bounds above the talent that GT had on the field the last 4 or 5 games of '08, including when the Jackets beat Georgia and Miami.

    250 pound Brad Sellars at right tackle, a converted tight end and Dan Voss at center. Are you freakin' kidding me?? Jay Finch could whip Dan Voss eight ways from Sunday.

    There were gaping holes in those games in '08.. do you remember the Miami game when Luke (piano on his back) Cox waltzed right up the middle for a couple long gains??

    If the offensive line is performing now like it was then, this would be a completely different team. And it is coaching, not talent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Hart View Post
    There's considerable truth to what you say. But the problem is that the talent on the offensive line is leaps and bounds above the talent that GT had on the field the last 4 or 5 games of '08, including when the Jackets beat Georgia and Miami.

    250 pound Brad Sellars at right tackle, a converted tight end and Dan Voss at center. Are you freakin' kidding me?? Jay Finch could whip Dan Voss eight ways from Sunday.

    There were gaping holes in those games in '08.. do you remember the Miami game when Luke (piano on his back) Cox waltzed right up the middle for a couple long gains??

    If the offensive line is performing now like it was then, this would be a completely different team. And it is coaching, not talent.
    I think losing some assistant coaches has hurt more than anyone thinks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rumcreek View Post
    I think losing some assistant coaches has hurt more than anyone thinks.
    Was just thinking the same thing this morning. Bohannon, Spencer and Kelly.. they were the younger, motivational, upbeat type coaches on the staff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AllGT View Post
    One of the things I keep seeing in several threads is "It's not like we don't have the talent, we were close or had the chance to beat the last three teams."

    That premise is false. Case in point: VT almost lost to East Carolina (15-10) and Marshall (29-21 in 2 OTs) the previous weeks before us. Is anyone going to say those teams are as talented as VT? Some of you might hate hearing this because so many are on the "Fire CPJ!" train, but it's actually the coaching, especially on Defense, that's keeping us in games. Yes, we have talent to be competitive with Miami, VT, and BYU...but better talent takes you from being competitive to winning. Remember throwing smoke routes to BeyBey and him taking it 60+ yards for a TD to pull us ahead against FSU? Remember Nesbitt handing it off to Dwyer against UGA on a simple dive, Dwyer cutting back that made a former 4 star LB lose his jock in the middle of the field, then taking it to the house on our way beating UGA? Remember Derrick Morgan being such a nightmare that he basically forced Clemson to play to one side of the field...the side Derrick Morgan wasn't on? Remember 5'9 Reggie Ball just throwing the ball up in the endzone knowing that Calvin Johnson was going to make "The Catch" against Clemson to win it?

    Talent helps with little things like being a step quicker to the edge to seal the LB or safety from the ball carrier. Talent helps when a DE gives an OT an outside move but goes inside and the OT is quick enought to recover to atleast push him off track to the QB so the the QB has more time. Talent helps when the WR is even with the DB, but the WR has an extra gear to pull away from the DB to take it to the house (see Stephen Hill and Demaryius Thomas).

    It's not the big things that talent gives you, it's the little things like what I pointed out above. We don't have much of that right now, and that's why teams are pulling away from us. Yes, we were in the game against VT, but did anyone honestly think we ever had control of the game?
    Excellent points, presented with clarity. But you fail to 'splane to me why we don't have Dwyers, Thomases, Calvins, Morgans, any more. We had them then. They could get into school then. They choose Tech over "fill-in-the-blank" then. Why not now? Running the program is more than making sure the guys go to class, and get taped, and all the other X's and O's stuff. You have to feed the furnace with players. You've made an excellent point that by using the VPI example, we are on a par with Marshall or East Carolina. I am sure UNC would say East Carolina is more talented than we are right now. I don't disagree with you that we MIGHT be coaching up what talent we do have. It's conceivable. But isn't the root cause of why we don't have any Stephan Hills or Anthony Allens is the offense we use? Isn't the root cause of why we can't sign a Derrick Morgan is that our defense has been in turmoil since DAY ONE? If your son was Ndamukong Suh coming out of high school and you had watched Tech's defense in 2012, would you advise him to make a visit to Atlanta? We will always be behnd the 8-ball when it comes to top flight talent. Much of our prsent woe is self-inflicted. We could and should do better. Georgia Tech has won a lot of football games without star talent--and I don't mean going back to Coach Dodd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Hart View Post
    There's considerable truth to what you say. But the problem is that the talent on the offensive line is leaps and bounds above the talent that GT had on the field the last 4 or 5 games of '08, including when the Jackets beat Georgia and Miami.

    250 pound Brad Sellars at right tackle, a converted tight end and Dan Voss at center. Are you freakin' kidding me?? Jay Finch could whip Dan Voss eight ways from Sunday.

    There were gaping holes in those games in '08.. do you remember the Miami game when Luke (piano on his back) Cox waltzed right up the middle for a couple long gains??

    If the offensive line is performing now like it was then, this would be a completely different team. And it is coaching, not talent.
    I don't know Jim. There isn't a considerable amount is size or athleticism on our line right now. Most of the guys starting on the oline didn't have multiple offers to the factories. We see the reason why now.

    Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk now Free

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Hart View Post
    There's considerable truth to what you say. But the problem is that the talent on the offensive line is leaps and bounds above the talent that GT had on the field the last 4 or 5 games of '08, including when the Jackets beat Georgia and Miami.

    250 pound Brad Sellars at right tackle, a converted tight end and Dan Voss at center. Are you freakin' kidding me?? Jay Finch could whip Dan Voss eight ways from Sunday.

    There were gaping holes in those games in '08.. do you remember the Miami game when Luke (piano on his back) Cox waltzed right up the middle for a couple long gains??

    If the offensive line is performing now like it was then, this would be a completely different team. And it is coaching, not talent.
    It might not be that we are coaching worse, but that our opposition is coaching better. You have to be improving all the time, or else you're regressing. Our opposition has accepted the fact that they must play Georgia Tech, so they either learn how to defend us, or concede defeat. The rivals in our division have improved, we have not. The new opponents like Syracuse or Pittsburgh will probably struggle with us at first. The teams that have seen us several times have developed a strategy. Teams like BYU had seen Air Force and other option teams over the years plus were physically superior.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 91Wreck View Post
    I don't know Jim. There isn't a considerable amount is size or athleticism on our line right now. Most of the guys starting on the oline didn't have multiple offers to the factories. We see the reason why now.

    Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk now Free
    Ahhhh, but the hype was that this group, with it's experience and seasoning and depth would be the centerpiece of the offense. Was that just so much smoke? Or have they under-performed.

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    Great post. We simply don't have game changers. We have a bunch of average guys who came out of high school with offers from Wake, Pitt, NC State, etc. I know CPJ laughs when people ask why our recruits don't have offers from other big schools, but dangit he is a stubborn idiot! I think an offer list is a great indicator of talent. I've noticed that most all of our recruits during CPJ's tenure had interest from big schools like Florida, UGA, Clemson, etc. but they didn't get offers. So we can't sit here and fool ourselves saying that "oh this is a diamond in the rough, nobody found this kid". The other schools found them and didn't want them! Yes we have had a few great finds (Shaq Mason, Gotsis, Owin Smith), but everyone else is just an average player that wouldn't cut it at a premium school. And THAT is why we can't compete with the premium schools.

    And coaching is also starting to catch up to us too, as others have posted. We lack talent at skill positions but have a stacked O-line. All of my comments above don't apply to the O-line because I feel like we have actually recruited well here. They are just a poorly coached group.

 

 
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