Insight Into the Vad Dilemma

“For some reason, when those lights turn on and it’s game time, I’m ready,” he said. “I feel like I can’t be stopped.”

Tech’s Lee gaining momentum | Georgia Tech

Originally Posted by stylee

Pratley was doing his thing before Muskegon's stuff got popular, I believe. It's based on flexbone principles as well, but he's got a little bit of a different idea of how to do it.

"Pistol" usually just refers to the formation. You can run tons of different offensive systems from it - it's just the idea of having a RB or two behind the QB. Ault's Nevada system is mostly based on Zone Read (though he also does some Inside Veer).

"Ski Gun" (later "raygun" and now something else now that Annese is at Ferris State) refers to a specific offensive system.

Usually, the Ski-Gun will have the QB in a shorter pistol. I'd put our guys at 2.5 yards behind the center. I think Annese might have his guys a little closer. The B-Back is in a 3 point stance a few yards behind him. The slots are 5 yards off the offensive tackles.

But the offensive system is basically just the flexbone/spread option system. You run Inside Veer triple option first, then you run Midline, complement both with Zone Dive, run Rocket (though the SkiGun guys run a ton of Jet too), complement that with a counter play, complement all the running plays with some playaction, etc.

Annese likes his quick passing game too and runs a slant/bubble combo with the slots and WRs a ton. He's also got a variety of screens.
As far as I can tell, Annese doesn't run much Run and Shoot stuff, preferring the quick game and playaction. He's also running a lot of shotgun this year, but that's a different story.

Here at Georgia Tech, we're more in a Nevada-type pistol, with the QB 4 yards back instead of 2 or 3. Our B-Back is in a 2 point stance and his role in our Pistol offense is more analogous to a Run and Shoot "Superback" than a B-Back ---- he's pass protecting most of the time, or getting the ball on screens. The RnS backs would get a nice dose of traps too, so maybe that's somewhere on the horizon for us.

It'd be tough to see us running a true Inside Veer triple option out of our current pistol set, just because it'd hit quite a bit slower if we had the B-Back diving. He's also so close to the QB that it'd be tough to get the timing right. I'm not saying it'd be impossible... Florida under Meyer would run some inside veer from shotgun, which hit at about the speed you'd be able to get from us...the only difference was he'd have the aiming point for the running back be more inside, usually at the inside leg of the offensive guard, rather than his outside leg, which is the usual aiming point.

We'd probably be able to pull off a Zone Read triple option the way Nevada sometimes does.

Right now our option play out of it seems to be an interesting kind of inverted veer. Usually the QB has the running lane outside the tackle and the running back has the lane inside of it. With our Jet Read, the QB, if he pulls, is supposed to follow a pulling guard through the inside lane. (I think. There's a thread on here about this play somewhere).

So... yeah. I think we've only run two running plays out of the pistol this year
1) QB Draw - same one we do from under center
2) Jet Read - Never seen it before.

Passing plays I've seen:
1) Mesh/Inside Cross - we did this from both under center and from pistol in the VT game, scoring on it from the pistol.
2) BB Screen - similar to what we did with Dwyer from under center once or twice
3) 4 Verticals - with different tags and option route adjustments.
4) Go - run and shoot play that we do from under center
5) etc. Just a lot of basic drop back stuff.

I'd guess we've got more running plays than that in the pistol playbook, but I don't think we've used any more than that.

Gotcha...I can talk about this stuff all night. Thanks.

BTW...I think CPJ going heavier Pistol this year is a result of our QBs nagging him about doing more out of the shotgun. It helps that his most talented QB in 20 years played out of it in HS:



Apparently Vad played defense as well in HS...

I didn't feel like we had more room to run out of the ski-gun set, really. At least not for the B-Back on the triple option. We did everything we could to keep him from cutting back before he got to the hole. The blocking on the triple is set up so that you really need to stay on that "track" as a running back between the guard and the defensive end. Cutting underneath the guards block means running straight into a middle linebacker who you're trying to block with the offensive tackle.

It did give us some more room to do some stuff with the QB. We had a fun little QB trap off of a fake triple option that I don't think you could realistically make work from under center.

The things you worry about with the SkiGun are:
1) Increased time it takes the BB to hit the hole in the triple
2) Having to hold your blocks for a little longer
3) Teams having an extra few seconds to key the A-Back motion (since he's starting from wider out and it taks you longer to snap it after motion begins)
4) Increased time for safety to run into the alley and break up the play.

There are some positives, like
1) QB has a clearer read on D-End (because he doesn't have to try to look around any trash at the line of scrimmage)
2) QB has a great angle to attack the pitch key. It's more straight at that outside backer.
3) Easier to throw it quickly.
4) Some running plays you couldn't do easily out of under center.

It is what it is.

Edit:

I wonder how much of it is marketing for recruiting too. At least to be able to say "Naw, we run some shotgun stuff." to a skill position guy who has heard otherwise. I don't know.

Originally Posted by HelluvaMGTmjr

“For some reason, when those lights turn on and it’s game time, I’m ready,” he said. “I feel like I can’t be stopped.”

Tech’s Lee gaining momentum | Georgia Tech

Middle Tennessee stopped him...

Originally Posted by stylee

Edit:

I wonder how much of it is marketing for recruiting too. At least to be able to say "Naw, we run some shotgun stuff." to a skill position guy who has heard otherwise. I don't know.

CPJ putting Vad's highlights together will be a great marketing tool. CPJ can finally say...look at Vad and what someone with his skillset can do in our offense. YOU will be able to do that when you come to GT.

Said it MANY times...as Vad goes, so goes our recruiting in the future.

Originally Posted by AllGT

Middle Tennessee stopped him...

Haha, you and Cheese are unbelievable. Do you only cheer for the athletically challenged? (I know who you voted for)

2 carries for 23 yards (11.5 avg) and 4-4 passing for 41 yards with a QB rating of 186. Maybe he should have played more as he was one of the few players that MTSU didn't stop.

Originally Posted by AllGT

Gotcha...I can talk about this stuff all night. Thanks.

BTW...I think CPJ going heavier Pistol this year is a result of our QBs nagging him about doing more out of the shotgun. It helps that his most talented QB in 20 years played out of it in HS:



Apparently Vad played defense as well in HS...

CPJ's quote really made it sound like the Pistol was basically a crutch for VL until he learned the offense...that and a passing only formation. I don't think we have run a single run play other than QB draw from it this year, have we?

Originally Posted by HelluvaMGTmjr

Haha, you and Cheese are unbelievable. Do you only cheer for the athletically challenged? (I know who you voted for)

2 carries for 23 yards (11.5 avg) and 4-4 passing for 41 yards with a QB rating of 186. Maybe he should have played more as he was one of the few players that MTSU didn't stop.

Mop up duty bro...he couldn't do squat when the game mattered.

David Sims looked great in mop up duty at QB at one time too. I think it's time we give up the Vad Lee QB experiment and move him to linebacker...did you see how natural he looked playing LB in HS? His tackling form and ability to track the ball was preternatural! Much more fun to watch him at LB than Jeremiah Attachou or Brandon Watts...

Originally Posted by AllGT

For all those that wanted to say CPJ was too loyal to Tevin when things started going south, here's some interesting quotes from the AJC:

Johnson on UNC, Oregon, Saban, Lee | Georgia Tech



Here's the most interesting quote:



So to all the "Is our offense really that hard to learn?" critics, maybe sometimes it's not the offense, but the comfort level of the player in the offense. I think this was echoed in one of CPJ's call in shows where you could hear the frustration CPJ had when it came to Vad and practices. I think CPJ REALLY wants to put Vad in there because he can do things nobody else we have at QB can do, but at the same time Vad has to be on the same page as the other 10 guys on the field with him.

Whoa! Now there's a shocker. CPJ reports that he is handling Vad's development in just the right way.

I would really like to see Vad run the jet read play that Tevin was running against Miami. It worked pretty well and I think play action with that play and out of that formation could be successful.