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Game Report

This is a discussion on Game Report within the Georgia Tech Football forums, part of the Georgia Tech Sports Message Boards category; Originally Posted by Big Philly The thing that makes me happy is that if you compare this footage to the ...

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Philly View Post
    The thing that makes me happy is that if you compare this footage to the Western Carolina footage from last year, you'll notice that our Run and Shoot plays are not simply mirror images of the primary routes on each side. The playside is Switch, but the backside is complementary routes. If you look at Zenon's catch on the play before Godhigh you'll see that the play is switch, but the backside A-Back is now running a crossing route to be the checkdown, rather than Tevin having the ability to throw Switch to either side.
    Interesting...good catch! (no pun intended)

    Why would we mirror the primary route combo? Wouldn't that essentially just give our QB one read considering he has to watch it develop on one side, and if the route combo is being played out on the other side, both reads would "terminate" at the same time? Once that occurs, wouldn't that essentially devolve into playground "just get open and I'll find you if not I'm taking off" situations? The WRs were probably taught to run to certain areas if that occurs, but to me it's just a waste of motion and opportunity if you're not developing the play across the entire field.

    Watching the ESPN guys dissect plays, and reading football sites like Smartfootball, etc. It's usually a primary route combo to one side, and a complementary route combo or progression to the other side. Like this:

    Matt Barkley and USC's "Sluggo Seam" Play - The Triangle Blog - Grantland


    Maybe giving our QBs a secondary read to the other side with some checkdowns is what's accounting for the higher completion percentage now (still early though). Check downs are a QB's best friend!

    What are the advantages of mirroring your primary routes?


  2. #62
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    I think Big Philly (or Steebu) and I discussed the problems with mirroring Switch last year.

    Now, sometimes mirroring route combos can be good; for instance, I used to mirror Smash a lot, as it gave my QB the ability to decide which way to read it, based on matchups etc etc. That is, we didn't HAVE a primary side when the play was called in.

    The classic way to run Switch is actually to have two vertical routes on the front side, with the Switch side being your back side and secondary combo. Not the only (or best, IMO) way to skin that cat.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by stylee View Post
    I think Big Philly (or Steebu) and I discussed the problems with mirroring Switch last year.

    Now, sometimes mirroring route combos can be good; for instance, I used to mirror Smash a lot, as it gave my QB the ability to decide which way to read it, based on matchups etc etc. That is, we didn't HAVE a primary side when the play was called in.
    Yep, that was me. The problem we had with a mirrored Switch was that our two WRs would end up almost running into each other when the Middle of the Field was Open. Mirroring Smash is good because the routes can't interfere with each other. Mirrored routes are really good to combine with different alignments on each side. So, on one side you put a Split End and a Slot Receiver and on the other side you put a Tight End and a Flanker. Then you can get an unbalanced defensive alignment and the QB can choose the side that is more favorable.
    The Option and Shoot

    Spicy Mustard

    "I'm sick of this negativity" - Yukonwreck

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Philly View Post
    Yep, that was me. The problem we had with a mirrored Switch was that our two WRs would end up almost running into each other when the Middle of the Field was Open. Mirroring Smash is good because the routes can't interfere with each other. Mirrored routes are really good to combine with different alignments on each side. So, on one side you put a Split End and a Slot Receiver and on the other side you put a Tight End and a Flanker. Then you can get an unbalanced defensive alignment and the QB can choose the side that is more favorable.
    Big Philly/Stylee,

    What's your opinion of our passing offense?

    I hear/read a lot of criticisms that the concepts and route designs are out-dated and not that innovative. That surprises me a lot since most all of our concepts (well, RnS concepts) are staples in the NFL and with elite college passing teams. It's well documented that NFL teams borrow RnS concepts, though not many people recognize it.

    Obviously, we hear a lot of "Well, all the GT WRs do is run Go routes!", which is pretty misleading considering they're reading coverages and taking advantage of matchups. Stephen Hill/BeyBey is going to take his guy deep 9/10 times on certain route concepts because they have the speed and physical advantage over the DB.

    Peyton Manning, passing professor that he is, only uses a handful of passing concepts...he just perfects them to the point it only fails if his guys aren't on the same page as him or don't make the catch. I believe we use a few of his concepts in our passing: 4 Verts and Smash (as both of you have already pointed out).

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllGT View Post
    Big Philly/Stylee,

    What's your opinion of our passing offense?
    The piece that continues to frustrate me is that we don't take enough advantage of our Trips formation. If we have A-Backs with receiving talent then this should be money for us because the defense will be in their base personnel package and when we line up they'll wish they could be in Nickel. What we end up getting a lot is a Single High Safety and the other safety shifting over to our slot A-Back, but playing really far off, and then the OLB shifting outside our Wing A-Back.

    With Bey-Bey we could eat people alive with Choice because there was no safety to help cover him. Washington-Hill just never seemed to be able to get it to click. It pains me to mention it since UVA is coming up. We lost the UVA game because Washington didn't see Hill for the GW TD off of Choice, but threw it to Melton for an inconsequential gain.
    The Option and Shoot

    Spicy Mustard

    "I'm sick of this negativity" - Yukonwreck

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Philly View Post
    The piece that continues to frustrate me is that we don't take enough advantage of our Trips formation. If we have A-Backs with receiving talent then this should be money for us because the defense will be in their base personnel package and when we line up they'll wish they could be in Nickel. What we end up getting a lot is a Single High Safety and the other safety shifting over to our slot A-Back, but playing really far off, and then the OLB shifting outside our Wing A-Back.

    With Bey-Bey we could eat people alive with Choice because there was no safety to help cover him. Washington-Hill just never seemed to be able to get it to click. It pains me to mention it since UVA is coming up. We lost the UVA game because Washington didn't see Hill for the GW TD off of Choice, but threw it to Melton for an inconsequential gain.
    So that's your PC way of saying it's not a scheme problem but personnel and "coach's decision" problem?

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Philly View Post
    The piece that continues to frustrate me is that we don't take enough advantage of our Trips formation. If we have A-Backs with receiving talent then this should be money for us because the defense will be in their base personnel package and when we line up they'll wish they could be in Nickel. What we end up getting a lot is a Single High Safety and the other safety shifting over to our slot A-Back, but playing really far off, and then the OLB shifting outside our Wing A-Back.

    With Bey-Bey we could eat people alive with Choice because there was no safety to help cover him. Washington-Hill just never seemed to be able to get it to click. It pains me to mention it since UVA is coming up. We lost the UVA game because Washington didn't see Hill for the GW TD off of Choice, but threw it to Melton for an inconsequential gain.
    nicely stated, big philly. yes, it is very frustrating!!! this is the vertical threat i've been harping on forever that we haven't been able to consistently take advantage of with a so-so QB and receivers who can't seem to make the routine catch. if we could make these work we could burn the hell outta people AND it would seriously help the run game cause DCs would be forced to honor the play or face the consequences.

    oh, for a QB's arm we can trust and a few decently, sure-handed receivers as our starters. one day, i know we will pose this threat! i can't wait for that day to get here. yep, more wait, wait, wait . . . ugh!

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    Quote Originally Posted by stonedwall View Post
    nicely stated, big philly. yes, it is very frustrating!!! this is the vertical threat i've been harping on forever that we haven't been able to consistently take advantage of with a so-so QB and receivers who can't seem to make the routine catch. if we could make these work we could burn the hell outta people AND it would seriously help the run game cause DCs would be forced to honor the play or face the consequences.

    oh, for a QB's arm we can trust and a few decently, sure-handed receivers as our starters. one day, i know we will pose this threat! i can't wait for that day to get here. yep, more wait, wait, wait . . . ugh!
    After watching the PC game, it's re-affirmed my thinking that our ABs will be our best vertical threats this season. Our WRs struggled a little bit getting separation from the PC DBs. The quality of DBs are only going to get better from here on out.

    Godhigh and Zenon have surprised me in the passing game. Deon Hill, Orwin, and BJ Bostic will be killers against those LBs and safeties in pass coverage. I think we've seen it the first two games...our ABs will have a heavier presence in our passing game than they've been in previous years.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllGT View Post
    After watching the PC game, it's re-affirmed my thinking that our ABs will be our best vertical threats this season. Our WRs struggled a little bit getting separation from the PC DBs. The quality of DBs are only going to get better from here on out.

    Godhigh and Zenon have surprised me in the passing game. Deon Hill, Orwin, and BJ Bostic will be killers against those LBs and safeties in pass coverage. I think we've seen it the first two games...our ABs will have a heavier presence in our passing game than they've been in previous years.
    tony's gotta keep his feet. he tackled himself three times on saturday. we sorely needs all backs to finish their runs. we trip and fall on our own way too often.

  10. #70
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    I'm drinking the Bostic Kool-Aid. He's built like a slot WR and can make guys miss like an A-Back when he's playing well.

 

 
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