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Placing Jaybo Shaw's Contributions in Perspective

This is a discussion on Placing Jaybo Shaw's Contributions in Perspective within the Georgia Tech Football forums, part of the Georgia Tech Sports Message Boards category; The purpose of this post isn't to start a Jaybo Shaw debate. Some fans think he didn't have the physical ...

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    Placing Jaybo Shaw's Contributions in Perspective

    The purpose of this post isn't to start a Jaybo Shaw debate. Some fans think he didn't have the physical skills to compete as a starter at the major college level, others think that as he developed during his college career he would. Those are debates for another thread or perhaps they have already been debated enough.

    Obviously players like Synjyn Days and Vad Lee are significantly superior physically to Jaybo.

    What time has shown us though is just how difficult it is for a true freshman to come in and master Paul Johnson's offense well enough to play as a true freshman.

    Where Shaw was able to come in as a true freshman and win games and have Paul Johnson's trust, Synjyn, Vad Lee and others still struggle in their redshirt freshmen years to learn the offense and gain Paul Johnson's respect and trust.

    Often times the only thing that answers questions is time itself..


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    i think your assessment is spot on, jim. jaybo didn't earn his nickname "the general" down here at southern for nothing! for what he lacked in athleticism he certainly made up for with his understanding of the offense. and, he was absolutely TOUGH as nails. he played dinged up a helluva lot and got up from some vicious hits after pitches. if we could put his brain in vad's body my friggin' goodness we'd have a tremendous option QB.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stonedwall View Post
    i think your assessment is spot on, jim. jaybo didn't earn his nickname "the general" down here at southern for nothing! for what he lacked in athleticism he certainly made up for with his understanding of the offense. and, he was absolutely TOUGH as nails. he played dinged up a helluva lot and got up from some vicious hits after pitches. if we could put his brain in vad's body my friggin' goodness we'd have a tremendous option QB.
    Jaybo was one tough warrior at Southern period.He got hell kicked out of him many many times but he came back for more.Of all the qbs both PJ has had at tech and Mo at GSU he was more natural.No doubt he was better passer than JN or TW yet he was small but smart.GSU could not have made such a great transfer to the option without Jaybo.Now at tech .......who knows but he did start some and won .I think he did everything he could with what he had to win and thas good enough for me.

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    While I appreciate what Jaybo did his freshman season and I agree with what you're saying to an extent, I think they are in two different situations. Jaybo was getting consistent reps during games because of Nesbitt being hurt. Getting consistent reps is huge in this offense. Days has not received consistent reps during games and Vad hasn't played a snap. We saw what Jaybo looked like (and what every QB in this system would look like) against FSU and UGA in 08 and UGA in 09 when he was thrown into the fire. Also, Jaybo had a better defense behind him. Why is that relevant? We were up 10-0 against Duke back in 2008 going into the 4th quarter. If we have 10 points against Duke going into the 4th the last couple years, we lose. He also had Demaryius Thomas and Jon Dwyer.

    Like you said, time will tell. This is all opinion because we haven't seen Days or Lee play much in games. I would like to think that throughout the course of a game, offensive production would be better with Days or Lee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Hart View Post
    The purpose of this post isn't to start a Jaybo Shaw debate. Some fans think he didn't have the physical skills to compete as a starter at the major college level, others think that as he developed during his college career he would. Those are debates for another thread or perhaps they have already been debated enough.

    Obviously players like Synjyn Days and Vad Lee are significantly superior physically to Jaybo.

    What time has shown us though is just how difficult it is for a true freshman to come in and master Paul Johnson's offense well enough to play as a true freshman.

    Where Shaw was able to come in as a true freshman and win games and have Paul Johnson's trust, Synjyn, Vad Lee and others still struggle in their redshirt freshmen years to learn the offense and gain Paul Johnson's respect and trust.

    Often times the only thing that answers questions is time itself..
    I agree, we really needed a solid Jaybo when Nesbitt went down early in PJ's tenure. However, to be fair to the current backups, Nesbitt probably knew the offense less than Shaw did at the time. Tevin has been here 5 years now to Lee/Days 2. I think the biggest difference is, once Lee or Days knows the offense enough to play, their status as starter will be difficult to challenge. (And, I suspect that Lee will endup being our starter next year with Synjyn being a monster A-back. Well, that's my hope anyway!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Hart View Post
    The purpose of this post isn't to start a Jaybo Shaw debate. Some fans think he didn't have the physical skills to compete as a starter at the major college level, others think that as he developed during his college career he would. Those are debates for another thread or perhaps they have already been debated enough.

    Obviously players like Synjyn Days and Vad Lee are significantly superior physically to Jaybo.

    What time has shown us though is just how difficult it is for a true freshman to come in and master Paul Johnson's offense well enough to play as a true freshman.

    Where Shaw was able to come in as a true freshman and win games and have Paul Johnson's trust, Synjyn, Vad Lee and others still struggle in their redshirt freshmen years to learn the offense and gain Paul Johnson's respect and trust.

    Often times the only thing that answers questions is time itself..
    This is actually a very interesting discussion that has many layers to it. It's not that black and white.

    Jaybo's time at GT is pretty interesting because it came at a time where he, CPJ, and the offense were totally new. Nesbitt had a year of college experience, but in a totally different offense. For all intents and purposes, both Josh and Jaybo were rookies in CPJ's system. What Josh had was physical and athletic superiority over Jaybo. Even though Josh had that over Jaybo, Jaybo actually may have had a little better grasp of the offense in CPJ's first year. Jaybo is a coach's son, that guy just knows football no matter what system you put him in. But in this offense, something I'll discuss more in depth later, unless one QB has overwhelming experience (like Tevin over Vad/Synjyn) "a little better" grasp doesn't beat out overwhelming superior physical abilities. Jaybo left everything he had on the field, but there was no way Jaybo pulls off this stuff:



    Keep in mind, CPJ played who he played at the time with a long view in mind as well as who gave GT the best chance to win now. He knew that whatever bumps and bruises he would go through with Josh would pay itself off down the road because Josh's ceiling was much higher than Jaybo's. An ACC Championship, and first team All-ACC QB in 2009 proved that to be true. One of the advantages of this offense is that not only can you tailor it to your QB's strength's and weaknesses, but you can also tailor it to your QB's experience level. CPJ actually discusses it in that video where he explains this offense with Wes. Here's a great anecdote about it:

    Second, and most interesting, is that there is sentiment that Johnson doesn’t totally trust his quarterback and is predetermining more reads than we might think. I don’t think that is as surprising as it sounds. Johnson said in clinic talks over the summer that he predetermined a lot of the reads last year, and there is some precedent for this: Tom Osborne said in the Nebraska heyday up to 70-80% of the reads in a given game might be predetermined by the call. I’m an option purist, and moreover from a viewing perspective I can’t always tell if a play was a bad read or a predetermined one. But that would help explain some of the stunted dives to Dwyer that have not seemed to go anywhere at times this year. (But don’t ask Mississippi State or North Carolina.)
    What’s wrong with Georgia Tech’s run game? (Is anything?) | Smart Football

    Now getting back to Jaybo. Obviously, he played a large part in CPJ's early years....but circumstances dictated it. There was nobody else, unless CPJ wanted to pull Tevin's redshirt. Anyone remember the Gardner Webb game at home? Same thing goes for Vad. I think had we not started out 6-0, there would have been a VERY good chance Vad would have played last season. Could Vad/Synjyn have played last year if GT REALLY needed it? Well, Synjyn did play, and I don't think I'm out of place saying we all saw why he didn't start over Tevin, even though Synjyn played in our offense in High School. With Vad, it's a matter of wasting a year with someone that's physically gifted who knows only 25-50% of our offense with no experience versus a guy who knows 80-100% with experience. Why waste a year with a guy who only knows a limited portion of our offense when you have another guy who knows our offense extremely well? We've complained that Gailey wasted a year of Nesbitt...same thing with Vad. Remember, Vad was treated like he would play getting a lot of reps during practice and traveling with the team, which is unusual for a redshirt who's not expected to play.

    Jaybo came at a time where he took advantage of opportunities (Josh's injuries) and lack of anyone else to run our offense. When he did play, he did great. I think had he stayed at GT, Tevin may not have been our QB last year. Jaybo certainly looked like he belonged on this level when Southern played at 'Bama last year. That said, I think it's a little too simplistic to say Vad and Synjyn are struggling just because they didn't get extensive playing time last season. Their situations are totally different from Jaybo's situation. It's not like Tevin was a scrub last season. He certainly didn't play to the level we all would have liked, but the guy put up almost 2700 yards of offense and was responsible for 25 TDs...plus he kept our bowl game streak going while having to lead a team with virtually no defense.

    Here's a question: Would Jaybo have seen the field had he come in with Synjyn, Vad, Justin Thomas, or even the walk-on Tim Byerly?

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    All you have to do is look at the Gardner-Webb game in 2008 to see what Jaybo meant to the team. I don't know if he could have taken a full season pounding but there's no doubt we needed him, especially in 2008. I don't fault him for transferring to GSU where he could be a 2 year starter instead of staying at Tech and being maybe a 1 year starter.

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    As others have said, in those years, there was no choice. Now there is.

    Now, there is certainly credit to give Jaybo for how well he did. He's a coach's son who studied CPJ's system, so that made him uniquely qualified as a younger QB to handle it.
    "If I find in myself desires nothing in this world can satisfy, I can only conclude that I was not made for here." - C.S. Lewis

    "When boxers and gladiators fight, it is often not because he is strong or invincible that the victor wins, but because the loser is weak. Matched subsequently against a man of real strength, your victor goes off beaten. Just so, heresy draws its strength from men's weakness and has none when it meets a faith of real strength." - Tertullian

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    I wonder if we would have gotten his brother(at usc-east) if Jaybo had stayed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by alagold View Post
    I wonder if we would have gotten his brother(at usc-east) if Jaybo had stayed?
    No. He committed to USCe while Jaybo was still on the team.

    Though he said he didn't want to compete with Jaybo and he always wanted to play for Spurrier at the time, the bigger issue was he didn't want to play in our offense.

 

 
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