• Paul Johnson's QB Dilemna

    You have a starting a QB who is really struggling with your base offense. The excuses are starting to wear thin. Vad saw extensive playing time last year and has played 9 games this year, so the experience excuse is running out of steam.
    Ideally you may be better off going to more of a run and shoot, but the o-line can't pass block and Coach Johnson is not totally comfortable with that.

    The other option is going with Justin Thomas. Thomas is clearly the better option QB. Johnson isn't Gailey stubborn when it comes to QB's. He will pull a struggling QB.

    So why is he is sticking with Vad? I think there may be a couple of reasons. Thomas has telegraphed some of his passes. Also, it may be the physical difference. Vad is a solid 6-2 over 200 pounds. Thomas is generously listed at 5'11 and I doubt weighs more than 180 pounds.

    The problem going forward is that the defense is not going to hold UGA and Clemson to 10 points. We'll need to score more against two defenses that have looked shaky this year. Right now, I have my doubts if Vad can put up those kind of points. If we don't, we limp home 7-5 with a 5-5 record against FBS teams.
    Comments 52 Comments
    1. HelluvaMGTmjr's Avatar
      HelluvaMGTmjr -
      Quote Originally Posted by dressedcheeseside View Post
      fify.
      Haha, there is Cheese speculating in the negative against Vad!

      That's retarded. How can you say a fumble in the 1st qtr cost us the game when we had so many opportunities in the next 3 qtrs?
    1. HelluvaMGTmjr's Avatar
      HelluvaMGTmjr -
      Quote Originally Posted by CobbTech View Post
      So you hope our recruits don't have the same attitude as me? My attitude is I would rather start at a school that wins and has a chance to play for and win conference championships than play at a place that has been one of the worst programs of the last 20 years. Yep, terrible attitude to have.
      Technically you are correct... We avg about one more win than loss every year and went to the ACC championship as the #3 team in the division with a 6-6 record. Where do I sign up?!
    1. lxUn1c0's Avatar
      lxUn1c0 -
      Quote Originally Posted by HelluvaMGTmjr View Post
      Technically you are correct... We avg about one more win than loss every year and went to the ACC championship as the #3 team in the division with a 6-6 record. Where do I sign up?!
      We've played in the ACCCG three times since 2006. How many times has Duke played for all the ACC's marbles?

      (...he asked, knowing full well what the answer was.)
    1. lxUn1c0's Avatar
      lxUn1c0 -
      Double post.
    1. HelluvaMGTmjr's Avatar
      HelluvaMGTmjr -
      Quote Originally Posted by lxUn1c0 View Post
      We've played in the ACCCG three times since 2006. How many times has Duke played for all the ACC's marbles?

      (...he asked, knowing full well what the answer was.)
      Again, if winning is the answer then we are truly screwed.

      I would again refer you to JT. What an idiot for walking away from who knows how many NC rings to come to GT, right?

      At some point doing what you love is more important.
    1. Atllove's Avatar
      Atllove -
      Quote Originally Posted by HelluvaMGTmjr View Post
      Again, if winning is the answer then we are truly screwed.

      I would again refer you to JT. What an idiot for walking away from who knows how many NC rings to come to GT, right?

      At some point doing what you love is more important.
      Ding Ding Ding
    1. Yukonwreck's Avatar
      Yukonwreck -
      Quote Originally Posted by RamblinWreck92 View Post
      Hell, Cheese was thrilled with the 2012 season. We had 7 big wins, we won our bowl game, and played in the ACCCG (thanks 100% to criminal UM program sanctioning itself).

      7 wins & a bowl victory == success. GET USED TO IT.
      High five!!
    1. RamblinWreck92's Avatar
      RamblinWreck92 -
      Quote Originally Posted by HelluvaMGTmjr View Post
      Haha, there is Cheese speculating in the negative against Vad!

      That's retarded. How can you say a fumble in the 1st qtr cost us the game when we had so many opportunities in the next 3 qtrs?
      It's pretty sad that Cheese believes our Offensive Genius Head Coach was done in by a single 1st-qtr fumble...that he was not able to recover from a 1st qtr TO (even though the D would make stops time & time & time again, handing the ball back to the Genius).
    1. RamblinWreck92's Avatar
      RamblinWreck92 -
      Quote Originally Posted by Yukonwreck View Post
      High five!!

      we were top-5 in the NATION in Team Rushing too. DON'T FORGET THAT!!
    1. dressedcheeseside's Avatar
      dressedcheeseside -
      Quote Originally Posted by RamblinWreck92 View Post
      It's pretty sad that Cheese believes our Offensive Genius Head Coach was done in by a single 1st-qtr fumble...that he was not able to recover from a 1st qtr TO (even though the D would make stops time & time & time again, handing the ball back to the Genius).
      I'm so glad I'm not you.
    1. RamblinWreck92's Avatar
      RamblinWreck92 -
      Quote Originally Posted by dressedcheeseside View Post
      I'm so glad I'm not you.
      you should support our coach more and stop blaming our losses on 1st qtr turnovers.

      Or just be a fulltime Notre Dame fan.
    1. AllGT's Avatar
      AllGT -
      Quote Originally Posted by Atllove View Post
      David Cutcliffe has put 6 QB's in the NFL.
      Duke had the same regular season record as Tech last year and currently has a better record now.
      Cutcliffe recruited Vad as a QB the same position that he has a track record of molding into NFL caliber players.
      Vad and Cutcliffe have a great relationship.
      Cutcliffe transformed his offense to better maximize a player of Vad's skill set..
      Yet, my comment is dumb.. Right
      If I'm a QB and want to develop and play in the NFL, coach Cutcliffe would be at the top of my list to play for along with David Shaw at Stanford, Phillip Montgomery at Baylor, and Bill O'Brien at PSU. All very good at developing NFL level QBs, and all at great schools. You get the "next level" football schooling, and the academics.

      I love CPJ's offense, but it would be hard for me to tell a kid with legit NFL prospects to come play in this offense. Making the NFL is hard enough, no reason to make it harder playing in an offense where QB development has proven to be minimal. Sorry, but that's just the truth.
    1. Boomergump's Avatar
      Boomergump -
      Quote Originally Posted by HelluvaMGTmjr View Post
      JT is a little too aggressive and takes risks. Not sure that's the best way to go when you have a close lead late in the game and your QB is doing ok.
      This. The biggest thing holding JT back is not Vad or his own lack of size. It is just his game management at this point. JT has run the mesh part of the option better in my opinion and he has played a little faster. The problem is that he has only one speed right now and that is balls to the wall. He is trying to make something happen on every play, regardless. He has forced a couple pitches and a couple throws. The pitches haven't killed him yet but the throws did. I like JT a lot. In fact, I might be his biggest supporter on this board. I actually think, at some point in time he will overtake Vad, but right now, even with my positive feelings about him, he hasn't won my trust to be starter. I hope he continues to get snaps. I love the swagger and I understand it is hard not to "over-try" when you do get snaps, trying to beat out a starter. But if he wants my vote, he needs to settle down. He can make the throws he needs to. It is not the arm strength or accuracy that is the problem. It is decision making. Much like Vad, JT has struggled on a few throws to get his feet and body aligned. When he does, you will see he has the arm.
    1. Boomergump's Avatar
      Boomergump -
      I love all the speculation about Vad's feelings when none of us even know the kid. He is working his butt off and he is a gentleman representing GT. Let's just be glad we have him. He is pretty talented and his future is yet to be written at GT. Heck, it was right about this time in Lil' Joe's tenure that he started to figure some things out and he WAS being mentored by a guy with a proven track record with QBs as good as anybody's (Fridge). All this talk is ridiculous. There are plenty of QBs who would love to come play in this very system as it is being run today. If you don't believe that I can't help you. They might not be the kind of QBs you guys want because you don't want this offense. Get over it.

      I continue to believe that QB recruiting is one of the TOP REASONS we should stick with the offense. We are far more likely to get the guy we need, than the alternative. It is not like QBs were knocking down our door to play in GT pro style offenses. We lucked out with a tiny kid in JH, ever since those days it has been pretty slim pickings around here until the flexbone showed up.
    1. AllGT's Avatar
      AllGT -
      Quote Originally Posted by Boomergump View Post

      I continue to believe that QB recruiting is one of the TOP REASONS we should stick with the offense. We are far more likely to get the guy we need, than the alternative. It is not like QBs were knocking down our door to play in GT pro style offenses. We lucked out with a tiny kid in JH, ever since those days it has been pretty slim pickings around here until the flexbone showed up.
      GT has always been a top destination for some of the top dual threat QBs in the Southeast, save for the early Gailey years. Shawn Jones, followed by Donnie Davis (#2 overall QB in his class, #1 Dual Threat), Joe Hamilton (#5 Dual Threat by National Recruiting Advisor), Demarius Bilbo (#5 QB in the nation)...drought under Gailey....then Josh Nesbit (#9 Dual Threat). Gailey was also able to recruit Steven Threat (top 15 pro style) and Sean Renfree (top 15 pro style).

      GT has had a history of recruiting top QBs in the nation...they may have not all panned out on this level, but the GT's does have a track record of attracting top QBs. I'm certain if we played under a different system that was more "QB passing friendly" GT would have continued to attract them...especially considering the state of GA has become a conveyor belt of top QB talent in the last 5 years.
    1. HelluvaMGTmjr's Avatar
      HelluvaMGTmjr -
      Quote Originally Posted by Boomergump View Post

      I continue to believe that QB recruiting is one of the TOP REASONS we should stick with the offense. We are far more likely to get the guy we need, than the alternative. It is not like QBs were knocking down our door to play in GT pro style offenses. We lucked out with a tiny kid in JH, ever since those days it has been pretty slim pickings around here until the flexbone showed up.
      Hmm...that remains to be seen. Who is this shining example of Flexbone QB superiority? JN? I love the guy but I think he benefited from the tools around him. Not sure how he would look handing off to Simslaskey and having to make accurate throws to Smelter and Waller. Who knows though. I'd like to see us use a QB more like a QB. What we've really done is neutered the QB position and turned it into more of a point guard. We took all the QB'ing out of QB! That's one way to solve the problem I suppose.

      I think Gailey has permanently traumatized many of you such that you are convinced we cannot succeed playing the same game as everyone else. "would you rather have Gailey's boring offense!?" Um, no...but that's why I wouldn't hire Gailey again. All other offensive systems don't have to be linked to Gailey! And as AllGT said, we got the QB we needed but too late. It may be too soon to give up on PJ and the flexbone for some of you but it is certainly ridiculous to completely write off all other offenses because Gailey struggled to find a QB.

      As far as how easy it is to get a good "flexbone QB" I would again ask where this example is? I am nowhere near giving up on Vad but he hasn't arrived until he's arrived. What's so frustrating is that I feel like Vad would be better in another system...that all these non-QB'ing things he is trying to do and struggling at is not what he's best at, that he would be best at playing a more traditional QB role, not even pro style but a "normal" spread option offense. But that's not who PJ is nor how our team is built. I thought we would see the O evolve some as PJ has promised some of these recruits but it just hasn't happened. What did Vad envision when PJ told him he could be the next Cam Newton? What did Custis imagine when PJ told him he wanted to run more Pistol with a RB like him? What did Jordan picture when PJ told him we would love to throw more, we just need a QB that can pass. I just don't think it is that simple given this offense is built to the extreme around one thing (running). I can hear PJ talking to Jordan in 4 years "I'd love to let you pass more son, but your OL is not good at pass blocking and your WRs are not that great, so just get out there and run these 3 plays!"
    1. Animal's Avatar
      Animal -
      Quote Originally Posted by Boomergump View Post
      This. The biggest thing holding JT back is not Vad or his own lack of size. It is just his game management at this point. JT has run the mesh part of the option better in my opinion and he has played a little faster. The problem is that he has only one speed right now and that is balls to the wall. He is trying to make something happen on every play, regardless. He has forced a couple pitches and a couple throws. The pitches haven't killed him yet but the throws did. I like JT a lot. In fact, I might be his biggest supporter on this board. I actually think, at some point in time he will overtake Vad, but right now, even with my positive feelings about him, he hasn't won my trust to be starter. I hope he continues to get snaps. I love the swagger and I understand it is hard not to "over-try" when you do get snaps, trying to beat out a starter. But if he wants my vote, he needs to settle down. He can make the throws he needs to. It is not the arm strength or accuracy that is the problem. It is decision making. Much like Vad, JT has struggled on a few throws to get his feet and body aligned. When he does, you will see he has the arm.
      It is rather comical that after all the "start Vad not Tevin" crap last year, they are so ready to throw Vad under the bus for yet another "not ready for prime time player"
    1. dressedcheeseside's Avatar
      dressedcheeseside -
      Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
      It is rather comical that after all the "start Vad not Tevin" crap last year, they are so ready to throw Vad under the bus for yet another "not ready for prime time player"
      I'm really curious where we'd be right now with Tevin at qb this year. His superior option reading, game management and ball security would have been more beneficial to the team than Vad's superior athleticism. In fact, when have we benefited from Vad's superior athleticism and stronger arm this year? A handful of times? When have been screwed by his inferior everything else? A lot.

      Oh and don't give me the poor OL play because it's the very same crew we had last year only a year more experienced. Unless, of course, you admit injuries matter but most of you have dismissed that reason already.
    1. white&gold's Avatar
      white&gold -
      I've never been a proponent of benching Vad and putting JT in. As PJ says, the backup is always the most popular person. I've always thought Vad was our best option (figuratively of course, not literally!!).

      But its obvious we're all disappointed in is progression. I was hoping for a player who was a little more polished in the passing game after spending time with Whitefield (was also hoping for better pass protection too). I was hoping for another JN type runner after Vad showed promise last year running hard and picking up first downs. I was hoping for a player who is a student of the game and masters the option. Vad apparently watches a ton of film, but we've yet to see that translate to mastering the offense.

      Hopefully these are just growing pains and the light bulb will come on. If we don't see any big progression before the season ends maybe he will be a new player next year. But either way I think it is fair to be a little disappointed in the progression of our highly touted 'savior' QB after watching 2.5 yrs of Tevin Washington football.
    1. InsideLB's Avatar
      InsideLB -
      Fans also called for Taylor Bennett over Reggie Ball.

      As with Vad's struggles this year we saw exactly why Taylor Bennett didn't play over Ball .

      Fine to criticize PJ over QB recruiting & development . Just plain dumb to say he isn't starting the QB who gives us the best chance to Win .