• A Misnomer About GT Football Talent

    One of the things I keep hearing about Georgia Tech's football team is, "It's not like we don't have the talent, we were close or had the chance to beat the last three teams."

    That premise is false. Case in point: Virgina Tech almost lost to East Carolina (15-10) and Marshall (29-21 in 2 OTs) the previous weeks before us. Is anyone going to say those teams are as talented as the Hokies?

    Some Georgia Tech fans might hate hearing this, because so many are on the "Fire Paul Johnson!" train, but it's actually the coaching, especially on defense, that's keeping us in games. Yes, we have talent to be competitive with Miami, Virginia Tech, and BYU...but better talent takes you from being competitive to winning.

    Remember throwing smoke routes to BeyBey Thomas and him taking it 60+ yards for a TD to pull us ahead against FSU? Remember Nesbitt handing it off to Dwyer against UGA on a simple dive, Dwyer cutting back that made a former 4 star LB lose his jock in the middle of the field, then taking it to the house on our way beating UGA? Remember Derrick Morgan being such a nightmare that he basically forced Clemson to play to one side of the field...the side Derrick Morgan wasn't on? Remember 5'9 Reggie Ball just throwing the ball up in the end zone knowing that Calvin Johnson was going to make "The Catch" against Clemson to win it?

    Talent helps with little things like being a step quicker to the edge to seal the LB, or safety, from the ball carrier. Talent helps when a DE gives an OT an outside move but goes inside and the OT is quick enough to recover to at least push him off track to the QB so the the QB has more time. Talent helps when the WR is even with the DB, but the WR has an extra gear to pull away from the DB to take it to the house (see Stephen Hill and Demaryius Thomas).

    It's not the big things that talent gives you, it's the little things like what I pointed out above. We don't have much of that right now, and that's why teams are pulling away from us. Yes, we were in the game against VT, but did anyone honestly think we ever had control of the game?
    This article was originally published in forum thread: A Misnomer About Talent started by AllGT View original post
    Comments 23 Comments
    1. AllGT's Avatar
      AllGT -
      You can view the page at http://gtsportstalk.com/content.php?...ootball-Talent
    1. Animal's Avatar
      Animal -
      Quote Originally Posted by rumcreek View Post
      GT will not ever have the recruits with multiple offers from top schools, because GT can't recruit them academically. Until some of the recruiting restrictions are relaxed, it will always be this way. These kids that think they are NFL material,whether they are or not, are not going to sign with GT when they can ease through FSU,Clemson,GA, Auburn, etc.
      I disagree, there are enough recruits nationally that qualify for tech and want a degree that Tech offers. Tech has not been recruiting nationally, instead choosing to compete with the SEC and southern ACC which has resulted in lower level recruiting.
    1. HelluvaMGTmjr's Avatar
      HelluvaMGTmjr -
      See Stanford and Northwestern. Is it difficult? Yes but that's why you hire a guy that can sell the school.
    1. dressedcheeseside's Avatar
      dressedcheeseside -
      Quote Originally Posted by HelluvaMGTmjr View Post
      See Apples and Oranges. Is it difficult? Yes but that's why you hire a guy that can sell the school.
      fify.
    1. dressedcheeseside's Avatar
      dressedcheeseside -
      See MiT and Cal Tech....


      Oh snap, they don't even field D1 teams...
    1. AllGT's Avatar
      AllGT -
      Quote Originally Posted by HelluvaMGTmjr View Post
      See Stanford and Northwestern. Is it difficult? Yes but that's why you hire a guy that can sell the school.
      There was a time, and it was very recent, that GT was the most successful of the "smart" schools. Stanford, Vandy, Northwestern...they were all thought of as career killers for coaches because getting SA's in was so hard due to admissions and daily academic requirements. Fans, alumni, and media all thought that those places couldn't experience success recruiting or on the field because of those factors. Then the narrative changed...those schools hired the right guy that didn't buy into those excuses and now are the model for the "smart schools" in the BCS. They controlled the narrative.

      Now GT fans are starting to sound like fans of those schools before they those schools had success. We're letting the narrative control us as opposed to what those schools are doing. Things changed for those schools...and GT just sat by and let the same things other coaches and the media hurled at us become reality.
    1. HelluvaMGTmjr's Avatar
      HelluvaMGTmjr -
      Cheese still refuses to believe that another school might actually be harder to get into than GT.
    1. Yukonwreck's Avatar
      Yukonwreck -
      Quote Originally Posted by dressedcheeseside View Post
      See MiT and Cal Tech....


      Oh snap, they don't even field D1 teams...
      And for about a hundred years that made us somewhat special. National Champions spread over 75 years, to boot. Not so sure about the future, and not because of Paul Johnson. Georgia Tech is partly to blame. Our remarkable success and the benefits that went with it, in the capitol of the New South was a beacon for dozens of other programs to follow. Why did Clempsen and Auburn and FSU and Miami ramp up in the past 50 years? Primarily to emulate the example the giants of the first half of the 20th century---just as Tech had followed in the footsteps of Notre Dame, and Army, and Yale, and all those early,
      champions. And now there's a new generation of wannabees who will more than likely become more successful--UCF, Troy, Western Kentucky, TCU, Boise, Northern Illinois. All cutting the talent pie into smaller and smaller portions.
    1. Yukonwreck's Avatar
      Yukonwreck -
      Quote Originally Posted by AllGT View Post
      There was a time, and it was very recent, that GT was the most successful of the "smart" schools. Stanford, Vandy, Northwestern...they were all thought of as career killers for coaches because getting SA's in was so hard due to admissions and daily academic requirements. Fans, alumni, and media all thought that those places couldn't experience success recruiting or on the field because of those factors. Then the narrative changed...those schools hired the right guy that didn't buy into those excuses and now are the model for the "smart schools" in the BCS. They controlled the narrative.

      Now GT fans are starting to sound like fans of those schools before they those schools had success. We're letting the narrative control us as opposed to what those schools are doing. Things changed for those schools...and GT just sat by and let the same things other coaches and the media hurled at us become reality.
      Exactamundo.
    1. AllGT's Avatar
      AllGT -
      Quote Originally Posted by HelluvaMGTmjr View Post
      Cheese still refuses to believe that another school might actually be harder to get into than GT.
      You know what I like about Cheese? That guy will defend GT to the end...he is 100% GT, and GT needs those kinds of fans and alumni. That's one thing I will NEVER question him on.

      My only issue with Cheese is he doesn't challenge conventional thinking on our problems regarding how to make our program better. Does GT have hurdles? Yes, but those hurdles don't prevent us from recruiting 3-5 difference makers on both sides of the ball every year. GT isn't UGA, but GT offers enough for the right athlete, and with the right guy who knows how to sell the program. Academics are challenging? So is life...and the right coach, like at Stanford, Vandy, Northwestern knows how to sell that. I wish some of the people that see our "hurdles" would just think outside the box and realize those hurdles aren't as big as they perceive. The funny thing is, our AD is on record saying the exact same thing...and that's because he's a guy that hasn't had it beaten into his brain that academics at GT is a problem.
    1. dressedcheeseside's Avatar
      dressedcheeseside -
      Quote Originally Posted by AllGT View Post
      You know what I like about Cheese? That guy will defend GT to the end...he is 100% GT, and GT needs those kinds of fans and alumni. That's one thing I will NEVER question him on.

      My only issue with Cheese is he doesn't challenge conventional thinking on our problems regarding how to make our program better. Does GT have hurdles? Yes, but those hurdles don't prevent us from recruiting 3-5 difference makers on both sides of the ball every year. GT isn't UGA, but GT offers enough for the right athlete, and with the right guy who knows how to sell the program. Academics are challenging? So is life...and the right coach, like at Stanford, Vandy, Northwestern knows how to sell that. I wish some of the people that see our "hurdles" would just think outside the box and realize those hurdles aren't as big as they perceive. The funny thing is, our AD is on record saying the exact same thing...and that's because he's a guy that hasn't had it beaten into his brain that academics at GT is a problem.
      Thanks buddy! But you're wrong about me not seeing outside the box. I think our hurdles can be overcome by the right guy. But I don't think the right guy comes to GT and necessarily knows how to do it right away. I think there is a learning curve at GT because our challenges are unique. Yes, we're a "smart school" but I doubt you actually think all things at all smart schools are equal.

      Stanford's and ND's emergence/resurgence makes the pool of academic elites even smaller. Be that as it may, I think we're on to something with our current strategy and lot of it has exactly to do with what you're saying: having guys who can sell the program. I think the addition of Roof and Pelton was huge and up and comers Speed and Owens are saying all the right things, as well. McCollum and Walkosky aren't too shabby and the addition of Hamilton and Khalif have been boons to recruiting, too.
    1. rumcreek's Avatar
      rumcreek -
      Quote Originally Posted by HelluvaMGTmjr View Post
      See Stanford and Northwestern. Is it difficult? Yes but that's why you hire a guy that can sell the school.
      These schools have a Liberal Arts programs that the athletes can take. GT does not. That is one reason I have mentioned that GT should merge with GA State. Still be GT wih engineering program , but give other options.
    1. gtpharmd's Avatar
      gtpharmd -
      Quote Originally Posted by AllGT View Post
      One of the things I keep seeing in several threads is "It's not like we don't have the talent, we were close or had the chance to beat the last three teams."

      That premise is false. Case in point: VT almost lost to East Carolina (15-10) and Marshall (29-21 in 2 OTs) the previous weeks before us. Is anyone going to say those teams are as talented as VT? Some of you might hate hearing this because so many are on the "Fire CPJ!" train, but it's actually the coaching, especially on Defense, that's keeping us in games. Yes, we have talent to be competitive with Miami, VT, and BYU...but better talent takes you from being competitive to winning. Remember throwing smoke routes to BeyBey and him taking it 60+ yards for a TD to pull us ahead against FSU? Remember Nesbitt handing it off to Dwyer against UGA on a simple dive, Dwyer cutting back that made a former 4 star LB lose his jock in the middle of the field, then taking it to the house on our way beating UGA? Remember Derrick Morgan being such a nightmare that he basically forced Clemson to play to one side of the field...the side Derrick Morgan wasn't on? Remember 5'9 Reggie Ball just throwing the ball up in the endzone knowing that Calvin Johnson was going to make "The Catch" against Clemson to win it?

      Talent helps with little things like being a step quicker to the edge to seal the LB or safety from the ball carrier. Talent helps when a DE gives an OT an outside move but goes inside and the OT is quick enought to recover to atleast push him off track to the QB so the the QB has more time. Talent helps when the WR is even with the DB, but the WR has an extra gear to pull away from the DB to take it to the house (see Stephen Hill and Demaryius Thomas).

      It's not the big things that talent gives you, it's the little things like what I pointed out above. We don't have much of that right now, and that's why teams are pulling away from us. Yes, we were in the game against VT, but did anyone honestly think we ever had control of the game?
      Very good post! I agree 100%! We do have some talent on this team, but we lack the difference makers that you referred to! We specifically don't have the game breakers like BeBe/Dwyer/Derrick Morgan/Morgan Burnett/etc. I think we've got a scattering of play makers on the team, but we've got so few that they can be game-planned right out of the equation.

      The real issue that I have is that it doesn't seem like this staff is particularly adept at bringing difference makers in - particularly on the offensive and defensive lines. Gotsis looks like he might be the real deal - aside from him I haven't seen much (Kallon hasnt' shown me anything yet). On the offensive side, the line seems to be in total disarray at times and really struggles with consistency (much less effectiveness!). Maybe some of you guys that have some background/knowledge on these matters can chime in, but do you guys think this is more of a function of position coaching or recruiting?
    1. HelluvaMGTmjr's Avatar
      HelluvaMGTmjr -
      Quote Originally Posted by rumcreek View Post
      These schools have a Liberal Arts programs that the athletes can take. GT does not. That is one reason I have mentioned that GT should merge with GA State. Still be GT wih engineering program , but give other options.
      Many of their athletes are not in these programs. We also have history and sociology. I think it's unfair to assume that these smart athletes are going to Stanford to take cream puff majors. An article I posted referenced a 4* LB from GA that was an architecture major and he said he chose Stanford for life after football and said it wasn't even close, mentioning Michigan and UF specifically. Also, business is a pretty popular major. Add in HTS, STAC, INTA and a few others and we do have more tha one Major two choose from.
    1. dressedcheeseside's Avatar
      dressedcheeseside -
      We have 4 OL's committed in this class.

      Gary Brown - Yahoo! Sports
      Andrew Marshall - Yahoo! Sports
      Jake Stickler - Yahoo! Sports
      Jake Whitley - Yahoo! Sports

      6'1", 6'4", 6'5", 6'4"

      The shortest guy is one mean SOB and may be the best of the bunch.

    1. dressedcheeseside's Avatar
      dressedcheeseside -
      Quote Originally Posted by HelluvaMGTmjr View Post
      Many of their athletes are not in these programs. We also have history and sociology. I think it's unfair to assume that these smart athletes are going to Stanford to take cream puff majors. An article I posted referenced a 4* LB from GA that was an architecture major and he said he chose Stanford for life after football and said it wasn't even close, mentioning Michigan and UF specifically. Also, business is a pretty popular major. Add in HTS, STAC, INTA and a few others and we do have more tha one Major two choose from.
      I love my alma mater, but Stanford blows us out of the water wrt academic reputation. They even have a higher rated Engineering program than us. It's a no-brainer for smart SA's to pick them over us unless they live in Georgia and want to stay close to home.
    1. Animal's Avatar
      Animal -
      Quote Originally Posted by HelluvaMGTmjr View Post
      Many of their athletes are not in these programs. We also have history and sociology. I think it's unfair to assume that these smart athletes are going to Stanford to take cream puff majors. An article I posted referenced a 4* LB from GA that was an architecture major and he said he chose Stanford for life after football and said it wasn't even close, mentioning Michigan and UF specifically. Also, business is a pretty popular major. Add in HTS, STAC, INTA and a few others and we do have more tha one Major two choose from.
      Stanford pulled a recruit from Ga. How many recruits has Tech pulled from the west coast?
    1. HelluvaMGTmjr's Avatar
      HelluvaMGTmjr -
      Quote Originally Posted by dressedcheeseside View Post
      I love my alma mater, but Stanford blows us out of the water wrt academic reputation. They even have a higher rated Engineering program than us. It's a no-brainer for smart SA's to pick them over us unless they live in Georgia and want to stay close to home.
      Oh so now having a great academic reputation is a good thing.
    1. dressedcheeseside's Avatar
      dressedcheeseside -
      Quote Originally Posted by HelluvaMGTmjr View Post
      Oh so now having a great academic reputation is a good thing.
      With a very small subset, yes. It just so happens to be the subset we're after.
    1. ballacuz's Avatar
      ballacuz -
      Agree with the original post but guess who recruited all those "great" players... not Paul Johnson... been time for a change for awhile